Condottiere or Diplomat ?

Which do you prefer?


In our 'live' games we play so that the condottiere takes the destroyed district into his hand, unless it goes to the graveyard.

This way the condo gets at least something for himself. Usually these are cheap cards, but if he's willing to pay more, he'll at least get a decent card in return. Red cards are especially interesting: pay to take the card, pay to built it into your own city, and take income from it.

It makes sense, taking a conquered territory under your own control. Btw, it nowhere says in the US rules that the card must go to the bottom of the deck. ;-)

Otherwise, we take the diplomat instead because the player gets some benefit. Especially with 4+ players where the condo cant keep up. But we sometimes miss the destructive power.

I prefer the Diplomat, because the games are quicklier, but I use both of them.

I prefer the Diplomat, but i choose always at random.

Achiles(X)

Condottiere forever !!!

Condotiero Catan..... y no esperaba eso de tí, matilda.... diplomático... puaffff

----------------------
Muerte lenta a Dan Brown.

The question is: do you often use the diplo's or condo's power when you select him? I dont mean the bonus income, but the destruction/trade power.

With the diplomat Ive noticed that often you'll want to keep the spare cash so you can build something decent next round, instead of trading it for a more expensive card.

With the condo it's clear that he has to pay a lot to destroy something of value. It's better to build in your own city instead, unless there's a 1 point card but these are rare. They are the first to be traded with the magician or disappear into the laboratory/museum... Even if they get destroyed, the victm doesnt loose much.
To give the condo some credit, we have him take the destroyed card into his hand. :-)

yo soy muy dulce y muy poco destructiva, no se por que te sorprende Catansito!!!!

Condottiere for everrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

dulce y poco destructiva???
tu eres rebelde y cañera.... eso del diplomático me ha dejado de piedra.... aún no me he recuperado...

----------------------
Muerte lenta a Dan Brown.

I never destroy with the diplomat unless it will be free (or are goint to loose a coin), or i win this round.
The diplomat is more useful. For free, you can get color and remove color from another player.
However, the diplomat are not too useful in the first rounds of the game.

Achiles(X)

I like them both, but the problem with the warlord is that sometimes people use it just for vengance, i.e destroying cards of 6 just so one person won´t win

sometimes you´ve got too much money and diplomat can change one of your cards for a more expensive one...

on the other hand on the last rounds you can remove colour from someone with the warlord

And don´t forget that the diplomat is more likely to get killed or bewitched

Hmmmm.... lots of options, I like them both

Pinipon

I would rather diplomat than warlord, because warlord is very expensive for the user, so I only take it in order to get the bonus income and destroy districts of value 1. The diplomat helps you to take the Colour bonus, good cards, destroy Colour bonuses of other players...

The condottiere is very powerfull to control the game when you have more quarters than the other players. I often spend quite a lot of money to prenvent other players for coming back when i lead in the game.

Whent he is well used, the condottiere can be very powerfull. For example, it is sometimes worth to pay a bit when you can destroy + delete the color bonus of you opponent.

I recently paid 5 golds to destroy a dragongate : the victim lost 11 points (8 + 3 color bonus). It was the last turn and otherwise, this player would have won the game.

Otherwise, the condottiere is also absolutely necessary to prevent a player to finish quickly by bulding multiple inexpensive districts with the architect (don't forget the architect can build 3 quarters in the same round: it's killing).

For instance, I never put the architect and the sorcerer in a game if the condottiere isn't there... otherwise this game becomes a fast run to get to 8 quarters.

So, when i create a game with the diplomat, I allways select the navigator and the magician. The ability to build multiple districts in the same turn without any balance (condottiere) top control it seems way too powerfull...

Diplomat and Condottiere are both fun, but i can't imagine to give systematicly the destroyed district in the hand of the condottiere : it would be waaaay tooo powerfull (if it was so, It would clearly be the most powerfull character of the game).

I´m agree with you Benwa.

Cada civilización debe contender con una fuerza inconsciente que pueda anular, desviar o revocar casi cualquier intención consciente de la colectividad. --- Teorema tleilaxu (no confirmado)

To me every bad Greek is a Barbarian and every good Barbarian is a Greek --- Alexander the Great, as quoted by Eratosthenes of Cyrene

I recently paid 5 golds to destroy a dragongate : the victim lost 11 points (8 + 3 color bonus). It was the last turn and otherwise, this player would have won the game.

-> The final round is an exception. Then you can spend all your extra cash on the condo because that gold won't be used once the game finishes. Any other time, it's suicide to spend so much gold on destruction. Your example is one of the few cases when the condo is very valuable.

Other examples are destroying the powder tower when you've build a valuable (6 point) card, destroying the museum when there are a couple cards underneath it...



Otherwise, the condottiere is also absolutely necessary to prevent a player to finish quickly by bulding multiple inexpensive districts with the architect (don't forget the architect can build 3 quarters in the same round: it's killing).

-> Finishing first with many cheap cards will not guarantee the most moints. I've seen games with people who had only 5 cards built but had more points than the one who had 8 cheap cards! So the condo isn't necessary to keep a "fast n cheap" tactic from winning. A better strategy is to avoid 1 point cards; trade them with the mage or lab, or use them for the museum or map room...



Diplomat and Condottiere are both fun, but i can't imagine to give systematicly the destroyed district in the hand of the condottiere : it would be waaaay tooo powerfull (if it was so, It would clearly be the most powerfull character of the game).

-> Why do you think he'd be so powerful? He wouldn't be more powerful than the architect, navigator, alchimist or merchant.
Note that the district he steals only goes to his hand. He'll have to pay twice to build it: once for conquering it, a 2nd time for rebuilding it.

Usually the condo will get a cheap card which isn't of much value, and will be as easily lost. When the condo does spend more cash, he'll get at least some decent card in return. But then he probably won't have enough cash left to build this round.

The difference is that 1 point cards aren't the best choice of attack anymore.
5-6 point cards are still too costly to attack.
What changes though, is that 2-3 point cards (the middle ground) become more attractive; you pay a bit and get a decent card in return. You might even have enough cash left to build it in the same round or even get income from it if it was red.

If you still find this too powerful, you can change the rule to:
"The warlord may either pay the value -1 and destroy a card which goes to the bottom of the deck, OR pay the full value and take the card into his hand."
Do not use the graveyard.

One thing I noticed with the diplomat is that you want to keep the extra gold to build something good next round. That way you'll also advance one card in your city.

Spending excessive money on the diplo's card swap results in you being broke next round and not being able to build.

ya puestos escribe el Quijote,veo que te gusta escribir

____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
El novio molesta pero no impide
Haz click y gana mil euros -> [www.albinoblacksheep.com]

Matt Escribió:
-------------------------------------------------------
> > One thing I noticed with the diplomat is that
> you want to keep the extra gold to build something
> good next round. That way you'll also advance one
> card in your city.
>
> Spending excessive money on the diplo's card swap
> results in you being broke next round and not
> being able to build.

Well, that's possible, but you better spend your money than beeing stolen in the next turn...

Benwa Escribió:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Matt Escribió:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > > One thing I noticed with the diplomat is
> that
> > you want to keep the extra gold to build
> something
> > good next round. That way you'll also advance
> one
> > card in your city.
> >
> > Spending excessive money on the diplo's card
> swap
> > results in you being broke next round and
> not
> > being able to build.
>
> Well, that's possible, but you better spend your
> money than beeing stolen in the next turn...


You've got a point but you always run the risk of being robbed. Just pick the right char next round, one which isnt too suspicious.